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Mail From: (email redacted)

Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to what is being
claimed here.
It is certainly an interesting theory...
mgccars.com/groove_101.htm

Paul
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Mail From: "A. C. Tynes" <(email redacted)>

Group,

Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good. Perhaps, too
good to be true.

I would love to see some independent test results. Since the "inventor" has
gone to the trouble and expense of getting a U. S. patent, I find it hard to
believe that he has been unable to afford to get properly controlled tests
done anywhere in the world. There must be thousands of dynos and labs that
could and would do the work.

The anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done nothing
to stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as dramatic as is
claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using it. What racer would
not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?

What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do you think Singh grooves would this put you well
into the 200 mph club?

A. C. Tynes
New Orleans



> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailtoemail redacted)] On Behalf Of
> (email redacted)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:39 AM
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?
>
> Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to
> what is being claimed here.
> It is certainly an interesting theory...
> mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
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Mail From: "Thomas Witt" <(email redacted)>

Yes! It was a rather heated discussing over on the ALLPAR web site about
two years ago. One guy (a very knowledgeable contributor) was very opposed
to the concept. He said it was far better to round off the sharp edges from
the chamber to the "squish" area than to cut these Singh/Somender grooves.
If you go to the ALLPAR site and do a search you should find all you need on
the debate.

I'd like to see real dyno numbers, temperature results and a long term
durability.

Tom




> Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to what is being
> claimed here.
> It is certainly an interesting theory...
> mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
>
> Paul
_______________________________________________
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Mail From: "Alan Zeni" <(email redacted)>

There was an article on this in, I believe, Popluar Science a few years ago.
I believe that the inventor was in India (makes sense with the name). I
recall that there was going to be a motor car company backing him. It
should be searchable on the net somewhere.

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. C. Tynes" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] head grooves?


> Group,
>
> Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good. Perhaps,
too
> good to be true.
>
> I would love to see some independent test results. Since the "inventor"
has
> gone to the trouble and expense of getting a U. S. patent, I find it hard
to
> believe that he has been unable to afford to get properly controlled tests
> done anywhere in the world. There must be thousands of dynos and labs that
> could and would do the work.
>
> The anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done nothing
> to stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as dramatic as
is
> claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using it. What racer would
> not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?
>
> What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do you think Singh grooves would this put you well
> into the 200 mph club?
>
> A. C. Tynes
> New Orleans
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: (email redacted)
> > [mailtoemail redacted)] On Behalf Of
> > (email redacted)
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:39 AM
> > To: (email redacted)
> > Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?
> >
> > Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to
> > what is being claimed here.
> > It is certainly an interesting theory...
> > mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
> >
> > Paul
> > _______________________________________________
> > (email redacted)
> > Donate: team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: team.net/archive
> > Forums: team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> > autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3005 - Release
> > Date: 07/14/10 13:36:00
> _______________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Owain Lloyd <(email redacted)>

i don't know, but just taking off and old gunked up head and cleaning up
everything including the valves would produce some of these improvements.
makes me wonder why i bothered just having some metal rearrangements
smoothed out in the combustion chamber of a head that snapped a valve....

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Alan Zeni <(email redacted)>wrote:

> There was an article on this in, I believe, Popluar Science a few years
> ago.
> I believe that the inventor was in India (makes sense with the name). I
> recall that there was going to be a motor car company backing him. It
> should be searchable on the net somewhere.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. C. Tynes" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] head grooves?
>
>
> > Group,
> >
> > Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good. Perhaps,
> too
> > good to be true.
> >
> > I would love to see some independent test results. Since the "inventor"
> has
> > gone to the trouble and expense of getting a U. S. patent, I find it hard
> to
> > believe that he has been unable to afford to get properly controlled
> tests
> > done anywhere in the world. There must be thousands of dynos and labs
> that
> > could and would do the work.
> >
> > The anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done
> nothing
> > to stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as dramatic as
> is
> > claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using it. What racer
> would
> > not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?
> >
> > What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do you think Singh grooves would this put you
> well
> > into the 200 mph club?
> >
> > A. C. Tynes
> > New Orleans
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: (email redacted)
> > > [mailtoemail redacted)] On Behalf Of
> > > (email redacted)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:39 AM
> > > To: (email redacted)
> > > Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?
> > >
> > > Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to
> > > what is being claimed here.
> > > It is certainly an interesting theory...
> > > mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > (email redacted)
> > > Donate: team.net/donate.html
> > > Archive: team.net/archive
> > > Forums: team.net/forums
> > > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> > > autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
> > >
> > > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3005 - Release
> > > Date: 07/14/10 13:36:00
> > _______________________________________________
> > (email redacted)
> > Donate: team.net/donate.html
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: drmayf <(email redacted)>

The other factor involved is given less attention here. He milled the
heads 0.060. That makes the squish area physicaly thinner maybe more
effective all by itself. Increasing the compresson ratio because of
that also helps power output. Now, it may be that for sure he hit on
something simple that does work. But, does it work for all motors? I
too would like to see some additional data. I would actually like to
hear the story of why he thought that would work in the first place. Or
some analyses showing that it would work.

I won't do it to my aluminum heads on the race car though, lol.

mayf

A. C. Tynes wrote:

>Group,
>
>Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good. Perhaps, too
>good to be true.
>
>I would love to see some independent test results. Since the "inventor" has
>gone to the trouble and expense of getting a U. S. patent, I find it hard to
>believe that he has been unable to afford to get properly controlled tests
>done anywhere in the world. There must be thousands of dynos and labs that
>could and would do the work.
>
>The anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done nothing
>to stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as dramatic as is
>claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using it. What racer would
>not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?
>
>What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do you think Singh grooves would this put you well
>into the 200 mph club?
>
>A. C. Tynes
>New Orleans
>
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: (email redacted)
>>[mailtoemail redacted)] On Behalf Of
>>(email redacted)
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:39 AM
>>To: (email redacted)
>>Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?
>>
>>Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to
>>what is being claimed here.
>>It is certainly an interesting theory...
>>mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
>>
>>Paul
>>_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
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Donate: team.net/donate.html
Archive: team.net/archive
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Alan Zeni" <(email redacted)>

Found the article.....
popsci.com/cars/article/2004-09/obsession-mr-singhs-search-holy-grail
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Zeni" <(email redacted)>
To: "tiger" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:35 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Fw: head grooves?


> There was an article on this in, I believe, Popluar Science a few years
ago.
> I believe that the inventor was in India (makes sense with the name). I
> recall that there was going to be a motor car company backing him. It
> should be searchable on the net somewhere.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. C. Tynes" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>; <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] head grooves?
>
>
> > Group,
> >
> > Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good. Perhaps,
> too
> > good to be true.
> >
> > I would love to see some independent test results. Since the "inventor"
> has
> > gone to the trouble and expense of getting a U. S. patent, I find it
hard
> to
> > believe that he has been unable to afford to get properly controlled
tests
> > done anywhere in the world. There must be thousands of dynos and labs
that
> > could and would do the work.
> >
> > The anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done
nothing
> > to stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as dramatic as
> is
> > claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using it. What racer
would
> > not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?
> >
> > What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do you think Singh grooves would this put you
well
> > into the 200 mph club?
> >
> > A. C. Tynes
> > New Orleans
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: (email redacted)
> > > [mailtoemail redacted)] On Behalf Of
> > > (email redacted)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:39 AM
> > > To: (email redacted)
> > > Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?
> > >
> > > Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to
> > > what is being claimed here.
> > > It is certainly an interesting theory...
> > > mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > (email redacted)
> > > Donate: team.net/donate.html
> > > Archive: team.net/archive
> > > Forums: team.net/forums
> > > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> > > autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
> > >
> > > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3005 - Release
> > > Date: 07/14/10 13:36:00
> > _______________________________________________
> > (email redacted)
> > Donate: team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: team.net/archive
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Mail From: " Ron Fraser" <(email redacted)>

As an engineer type I would like to see a side be side study of 2
identical engines with baseline study and single step data to support all
the claims. It is too easy to throw a bunch of time and money at this and
say look what I found and look at the gains, using seat of the pants
reckoning. I can't say this does not work but I would like to see a
structured study with repeatable results.

Much like the magnet on the fuel line would give you 5 to 10%
mileage increase; if you read the instructions for that product you put new
spark plugs in and a number of other tune up items then put the magnet on
and bingo you get better gas mileage because of the magnet on the fuel line.
Did you notice the diamond tip spark plugs or what ever they are call in the
picture; they are suppose to increase mileage by themselves.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailtoemail redacted)]
On Behalf Of drmayf
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:56 PM
To: A. C. Tynes
Cc: (email redacted); (email redacted)
Subject: Re: [Tigers] head grooves?


The other factor involved is given less attention here. He milled the
heads 0.060. That makes the squish area physicaly thinner maybe more
effective all by itself. Increasing the compresson ratio because of
that also helps power output. Now, it may be that for sure he hit on
something simple that does work. But, does it work for all motors? I
too would like to see some additional data. I would actually like to
hear the story of why he thought that would work in the first place. Or
some analyses showing that it would work.

I won't do it to my aluminum heads on the race car though, lol.

mayf

A. C. Tynes wrote:

>Group,
>
>Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good. Perhaps,
>too good to be true.
>
>I would love to see some independent test results. Since the "inventor"
>has gone to the trouble and expense of getting a U. S. patent, I find
>it hard to believe that he has been unable to afford to get properly
>controlled tests done anywhere in the world. There must be thousands of
>dynos and labs that could and would do the work.
>
>The anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done
>nothing to stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as
>dramatic as is claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using
>it. What racer would not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?
>
>What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do you think Singh grooves would this put you
>well into the 200 mph club?
>
>A. C. Tynes
>New Orleans
_______________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Sandy Ganz <(email redacted)>

Looks like a good way to ruin a set of heads.

Sandy



----- Original Message ----
From: "(email redacted)" <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 7:38:43 AM
Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?

Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to what is being
claimed here.
It is certainly an interesting theory...
mgccars.com/groove_101.htm

Paul
_______________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Sandy Ganz <(email redacted)>

Yeah, milling the heads and clear rebuilds will be the power gain and likely a
proper tune. BTW see if you find these groves on any Nascar motor... Anything
that has edges in the chambers is also bad, IMO. It's like the use of gapless
rings in the engine, some say they are worse then regular rings some say they
are not, but I have not seen anyone do A/B testing so it's not conclusive they
are any better. If Scientific repeatable testing is not done, it's all
speculation.

<sarcastic>

I do know that I can rebuild my motor by putting
these tablets in my gas tank
and pouring this special solution in the oil and
my engine will rebuild while it
drives

Cow magnets on my fuel line too, just
to be sure.

</sarcstic>

Lots of fun, but don't wreck a set of heads would be
my guess...

Sandy


----- Original Message ----
From: drmayf
<(email redacted)>
To: A. C. Tynes <(email redacted)>
Cc:
(email redacted); (email redacted)
Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010
9:56:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] head grooves?

The other factor involved is
given less attention here. He milled the
heads 0.060. That makes the squish
area physicaly thinner maybe more
effective all by itself. Increasing the
compresson ratio because of
that also helps power output. Now, it may be
that for sure he hit on
something simple that does work. But, does it work
for all motors? I
too would like to see some additional data. I would
actually like to
hear the story of why he thought that would work in the
first place. Or
some analyses showing that it would work.

I won't do it to
my aluminum heads on the race car though, lol.

mayf

A. C. Tynes wrote:
>Group,
>
>Like many things, it seems to make sense and sounds very good.
Perhaps, too
>good to be true.
>
>I would love to see some independent test
results. Since the "inventor" has
>gone to the trouble and expense of getting
a U. S. patent, I find it hard to
>believe that he has been unable to afford
to get properly controlled tests
>done anywhere in the world. There must be
thousands of dynos and labs that
>could and would do the work.
>
>The
anecdotal evidence also indicates that the "inventor" has done nothing
>to
stop anyone from trying out his idea. If the effect is as dramatic as is
>claimed, I can't believe that no major racer is using it. What racer would
>not try such a cheap way to gain horsepower?
>
>What say you, Dr. Mayf? Do
you think Singh grooves would this put you well
>into the 200 mph club?
>
>A.
C. Tynes
>New Orleans
>
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:
(email redacted)
>>[mailtoemail redacted)] On
Behalf Of
>>(email redacted)
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:39 AM
>>To: (email redacted)
>>Subject: [Tigers] head grooves?
>>
>>Has anyone
else heard of this or think there's any truth to
>>what is being claimed
here.
>>It is certainly an interesting theory...
>>mgccars.com/groove_101.htm
>>
>>Paul
>>_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
(email redacted)
Donate:
team.net/donate.html
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Mail From: (email redacted)

_Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com_ (mailtoemail redacted)) writes:

Has anyone else heard of this or think there's any truth to what is being
claimed here.
It is certainly an interesting theory...
mgccars.com/groove_101.htm

Paul


I wonder if this is the same Somender Singh who has $35 million waiting
for me in Punjab!

John Logan
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