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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mike Hokanson" <(email redacted)>

It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. Lots
of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned here
is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. When
you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are
stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart
practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a Tiger,
Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly modified
Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. My
'67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the
right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative
things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and
end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of losing
a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. I'm
curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice,
clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. But
the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car it's
from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have an
interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting
confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of us
will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it
becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here
earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there
wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a motor
transplant. Just my .02.
_______________________________________________
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Mail From: (email redacted)

Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems to
be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish enough
to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped?


In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion.
Lots
of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned
here
is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle.
When
you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are
stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart
practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a
Tiger,
Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly
modified
Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car.
My
'67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the
right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative
things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and
end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of
losing
a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone.
I'm
curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice,
clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating.
But
the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car
it's
from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have
an
interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting
confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of
us
will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it
becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here
earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there
wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a
motor
transplant. Just my .02.
_______________________________________________
(email redacted)
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Archive: team.net/archive
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Unsubscribe/Manage:
autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Would U. Believe" <(email redacted)>

It seems clear that he does, or should. He's looking for $30k plus for the
car. Here's what he told me:

"We sold a 3real2 Tiger about 60 days ago for north of $60k
while that
market might have eroded some, not to the point where a car that is a real
one should go for half that. If that is where you thought process is as it
relates to pricing on this particular car, no further conversation is
necessary.

We are well aware of the fact that this car has in its past been represented
as a 3real2 Tiger, hence our being ultra-clear (or so we thought, if there
is still a question in your mind) with calling it for what it is---a
conversion. It has been meticulously put together and is an excellent
value."



On 8/6/10 8:09 PM, "(email redacted)" <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems to
> be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish enough
> to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped?
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion.
> Lots
> of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned
> here
> is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle.
> When
> you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are
> stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart
> practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a
> Tiger,
> Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly
> modified
> Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car.
> My
> '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's
the
> right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do
creative
> things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal
and
> end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of
> losing
> a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone.
> I'm
> curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a
nice,
> clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating.
> But
> the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car
> it's
> from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have
> an
> interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting
> confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of
> us
> will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it
> becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here
> earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there
> wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a
> motor
> transplant. Just my .02.
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>

Mike,

Deception is a primary tool for forgers. As soon as something is
wanted, someone is willing to counterfeit.

This goes for postage stamps, valuable coins, "found on treasure ship"
and paintings/photos when they are more valuable than it costs to forge
them. Now a lot of counterfeit silver jewelry on eBay. (todays CBS TV
report).

I have absolutely no bad feelings about modifying an Alpine to have the
performance features of a Tiger. They can allow those who like the
Tiger, but can't afford one, to get very close, if not better. No harm here.

However, when the cars have deliberately changed VIN plates to one that
did not come with the car would then be an attempt to deceive. There is
no performance advantage to cosmetic changes, and the intent of the
seller is in doubt.

Now, this is not meant to discourage true hot-rodder, just the ones who
build with the intent to deceive. I can see no other reason to alter the
registration. This is done with stolen cars as well, and the law deals
strongly with stolen car being altered.

I can see no other reason to change the VIN, other than an intent to
deceive. More power to those want want to openly modify their Alpine.

Anybody want a postage stamp with the airplane shown upside-down?

Steve

Steve Laifman

Editor

TigersUnited.com



Mike Hokanson wrote:
> It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. Lots
> of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned here
> is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. When
> you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are
> stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart
> practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a Tiger,
> Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly modified
> Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. My
> '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the
> right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative
> things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and
> end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of losing
> a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. I'm
> curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice,
> clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. But
> the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car it's
> from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have an
> interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting
> confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of us
> will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it
> becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here
> earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there
> wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a motor
> transplant. Just my .02.
_______________________________________________
(email redacted)
Donate: team.net/donate.html
Archive: team.net/archive
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Wonder what he's going to say if the car is sold and confiscated by some
DMV for the swapped VIN?


In a message dated 8/6/2010 8:52:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

It seems clear that he does, or should. He's looking for $30k plus for
the
car. Here's what he told me:

"We sold a B3realB2 Tiger about 60 days ago for north of $60kE while that
market might have eroded some, not to the point where a car that is a real
one should go for half that. If that is where you thought process is as it
relates to pricing on this particular car, no further conversation is
necessary.

We are well aware of the fact that this car has in its past been
represented
as a B3realB2 Tiger, hence our being ultra-clear (or so we thought, if there
is still a question in your mind) with calling it for what it is---a
conversion. It has been meticulously put together and is an excellent
value."



On 8/6/10 8:09 PM, "(email redacted)" <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems
to
> be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish
enough
> to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped?
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion.
> Lots
> of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue c
oncerned
> here
> is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle.
> When
> you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are
> stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart
> practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a
> Tiger,
> Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly
> modified
> Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the
car.
> My
> '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's
the
> right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do
creative
> things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal
and
> end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of
> losing
> a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone.
> I'm
> curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a
nice,
> clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating.
> But
> the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car
> it's
> from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that
have
> an
> interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting
> confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none
of
> us
> will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it
> becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here
> earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and
there
> wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a
> motor
> transplant. Just my .02.
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
_______________________________________________
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Archive: team.net/archive
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Would U. Believe" <(email redacted)>

I asked him the same question...no answer.


On 8/6/10 9:12 PM, "(email redacted)" <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Wonder what he's going to say if the car is sold and confiscated by some
DMV
> for the swapped VIN?
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2010 8:52:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>> It seems clear that he does, or should. He's looking for $30k plus for
the
>> car. Here's what he told me:
>>
>> "We sold a B3realB2 Tiger about 60 days ago for north of $60kE while that
>> market might have eroded some, not to the point where a car that is a
real
>> one should go for half that. If that is where you thought process is as
it
>> relates to pricing on this particular car, no further conversation is
>> necessary.
>>
>> We are well aware of the fact that this car has in its past been
represented
>> as a B3realB2 Tiger, hence our being ultra-clear (or so we thought, if
there
>> is still a question in your mind) with calling it for what it is---a
>> conversion. It has been meticulously put together and is an excellent
>> value."
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/10 8:09 PM, "(email redacted)" <(email redacted)> wrote:
>>
>>> Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems
to
>>> be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish
enough
>>> to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped?
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> (email redacted) writes:
>>>
>>> It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion.
>>> Lots
>>> of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue
concerned
>>> here
>>> is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle.
>>> When
>>> you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that
are
>>> stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart
>>> practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a
>>> Tiger,
>>> Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly
>>> modified
>>> Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the
car.
>>> My
>>> '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's
>>> the
>>> right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do
>>> creative
>>> things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal
>>> and
>>> end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of
>>> losing
>>> a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone.
>>> I'm
>>> curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a
>>> nice,
>>> clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating.
>>> But
>>> the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car
>>> it's
>>> from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that
have
>>> an
>>> interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting
>>> confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none
of
>>> us
>>> will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if
it
>>> becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it
here
>>> earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and
there
>>> wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a
>>> motor
>>> transplant. Just my .02.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> (email redacted)
>>> Donate: team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: team.net/archive
>>> Forums: team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> (email redacted)
>>> Donate: team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: team.net/archive
>>> Forums: team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
_______________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "A. C. Tynes" <(email redacted)>

Yes, according to his e-mail to me, the dealer is fully aware that the VIN
has been switched and excuses it by saying, "The rules as they relate to
older cars no doubt gets a bit murky." He also say the has been sold several
times and titled with the switched VIN being on the title.

A. C. Tynes
New Orleans



> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailtoemail redacted)] On Behalf Of (email redacted)
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:09 PM
> To: (email redacted); (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer
>
> Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been
> switched. He seems to be covering his butt by saying it's an
> Alpine. Would he be foolish enough to show the vin if he
> knew it has been swapped?
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> (email redacted) writes:
>
> It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of
> discussion.
> Lots
> of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main
> issue concerned
> here
> is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another
> vehicle.
> When
> you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN
> plates that are
> stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is
> not a smart
> practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was
> done on a
> Tiger,
> Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly
> modified
> Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and
> enjoy the car.
> My
> '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such
> because that's the
> right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components
> and do creative
> things involving the installation of today's tech in the old
> sheetmetal and
> end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed
> without fear of
> losing
> a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on
> her phone.
> I'm
> curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly
> because it's a nice,
> clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into
> creating.
> But
> the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless
> of what car
> it's
> from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as
> well that have
> an
> interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the
> car getting
> confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility
> that none of
> us
> will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being
> pulled if it
> becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone
> said it here
> earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been
> retained and there
> wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an
> Alpine with a
> motor
> transplant. Just my .02.
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
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> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
>
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> Date: 08/03/10 01:35:00
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