Tigers List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Richard F Flynn <(email redacted)>


Apologies to bring up what is no doubt a tiresome subject for some (a FAQ would
be helpful here - saw the start made in January - would be great to see it all
come
together!), but I am trying to cure my recently acquired Tiger of its hot
temperament.
I have surfed the list archives heavily, had some helpful advice from Mssr. S.
Laifman, and would now like to ask the list at large for any comment on my
proposed
course of treatment below.

thanks in advance,

rick & B9471206

Running Characteristics @ 70F ambient temps:
- 170F-180F @ 60MPH-70MPH
- 210F-220F @ 30MPH-40MPH
- 250F+ after 15 - 20 minutes of stop/go traffic city (London UK) or
just idling in the drive, where upon it gets finicky, stops running,
stalls, and looses tan(!) fluid from the overflow tube only
(the current specification of my Tiger is included at the bottom of this
message)

Proposed course of treatment:
1) Figure out what I have (see "Current Specification" and what exactly
is happening (see "Running Characteristics"
2) Based on that information and that gleaned from the list folks, I am
planning on:
- establish accuracy of temperature gauge (though clearly there
is a problem)
- check radiator cap & thermostat (which is currently a mystery)
- having cooling system professionally flushed (the system was
drained & refilled 2 weeks ago, so the tan color is a bit
disconcerting, especially knowing it has been seldom used for
the past 3 years)
- install Gano filer on radiator
- replace 6-blade water pump fan with one of the fans identified
by the list, I suspect the Volvo will prove easier to locate
- replace unshrouded auxiliary electric fan with shrouded high
flow fan, probably the Scott Manufacturing fan discussed on
the list from time to time
- close gaps & holes around radiator
3) Other possible modifications (no necessarily related to my problem)
- install electronic ignition (the Pertronics seems popular)
- possibly replace fuel pump (currently an unknown quantity)

My Current Questions:
- Any comments, suggestions, things I overlooked or missed?
- Does anyone know of a source for the Volvo fans (does Volvo still make
them - parts yards are a bit scarce in central-London)?
- Anyone know a good radiator place in/near central London?
- It seems to me to be clearly a low speed problem, possibly compounded by
a semi-clogged cooling system. Is this a fair assesment of the situation
or am I missing the mark?

Current Specification
- 1965 Tiger MKI B9471206
w/289ci engine, transplanted at an unknown date from an unknown origin (in
Texas apparently):
- complete rebuild 2500 miles/3 years ago (yes, spent a fair
amount of time not being used)
- tested on rolling road 2 weeks ago, so timing, ignition, etc.
are fine
- no build up of grime/crud on engine
- no unusual objects restricting air flow through grill, etc.

- air cleaner : standard
- carburetor : Carter
- manifold : Offenhauser 306 Dualport
- cam : mild, but "hotter-than-stock"
- heads/valves : standard
- pistons/crank/etc : standard
- ignition/distributor : standard
- fuel pump : standard

- water pump : new, standard
- water pump fan : 6-blade flex fan (yellow blades pop
riveted to white star base, all fiberglass)
- fan belt : new
- radiator cap : 15lb
- thermostat : unknown
- radiator : unidentified high efficiency, unknown number of
cores with 3/8" spacing & 9 ribons/inch
- radiator hoses : new
- radiator shroud : standard & complete
- auxiliary fan : unshrouded 4-blade fan in front of radiator
- hood/bonnet : standard

rick

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Bob Palmer <(email redacted)>

Rick,

Mssr. Laifman is undoubtedly the alpha to omega on this subject and also
probably the one best qualified to write a standard reference FAQ on the
subject of Tiger cooling. However, there are some differences of opinion on
this subject, so input from different sources may be helpful (or
confusing). There are those who claim, even here in warm, sunny, So. Calif.
that the original Tiger did not have a heating problem. The experience of
many others is very much to the contrary. In many instances the problem was
made worse by making various modifications that were counterproductive
(e.g., replacing the original fan with one such as yours).

I suspect Herr Laifman has suggested that a bigger fan is the most likely
remedy to your problem, although the brown colour of your coolant indicates
some corrosion (rust?) going on that may require a few more flushings
and/or rust inhibitor. But, you may want to take a more thorough approach
to analysing the problem. Your observation that the cooling is adequate
above 50 mph and gets progressively worse below that suggests two
possibilities; a) either not enough air flowing past the radiator or b) not
enough coolant flowing through the radiator. If it is the former, the
temperature at the inlet and outlet of the radiator will be nearly equal.
If it is the latter, the temperature at the outlet will be much lower than
at the inlet. You may also have variations in temperature from top to
bottom across the radiator indicating uneven water flow. If you have access
to an appropriate temperature measurement instrument and can map the
temperature profile of the radiator, this would be very informative as to
the cause of the problem.

Note that of the two possibilities mentioned, having essentially the same
temperature at the inlet and outlet is also consistent with having a very
good cooling system; i.e., coolant flow through the radiator should never
be the limiting parameter. This point is gotten backwards by many who jump
to the intuitive assumption that the better the system is working, the
bigger the temperature drop in the coolant across the radiator when, in
fact, the ideal case would be approaching no temperature drop across the
radiator. This ideal condition is closely approximated by having a good
water pump that pumps more than sufficiently at all engine speeds. I have
known of cases where a brand new water pump does not pump well enough at
idle and a problem such as you describe was cured by replacing the pump. I
believe from my personal experience and what others have told me that the
best pumps have a cast iron impeller, not the stamped metal ones commonly
found on aftermarket pumps.

You do not state which gear you are in when driving in the 30-40 mph range.
If the engine rpms were about the same as for the 60-70 mph test, then I
believe this would tend to eliminate the water pump as the problem since
the only real difference in this case would be the air velocity past the
radiator.

If your auxiliary electric fan was running for the idle test, then it may
be relatively ineffective as well. If you use a high volume mechanical fan,
then no electric fan will be needed. If, on the other hand, you are trying
to reduce the parasitic losses by using a flex-fan or such, then you will
need a good auxiliary electric fan. I know of a Tiger or two that, like
most new cars, uses no mechanical fan at all and relies entirely on an
electric fan at low speeds and idle.

I hope these thoughts prove helpful and good luck with a (hopefully simple)
solution to your heating problem.

TTFN,

Bob


At 02:03 PM 5/9/99 +0100, Richard F Flynn wrote:
>
>Apologies to bring up what is no doubt a tiresome subject for some (a FAQ
would
>be helpful here - saw the start made in January - would be great to see it all
>come
>together!), but I am trying to cure my recently acquired Tiger of its hot
>temperament.
>I have surfed the list archives heavily, had some helpful advice from Mssr. S.
>Laifman, and would now like to ask the list at large for any comment on my
>proposed
>course of treatment below.
>
>thanks in advance,
>
>rick & B9471206
>
snip, snip, snip, . . . .
Robert L. Palmer
Dept. of AMES, Univ. of Calif., San Diego
(email redacted)
(email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>

Richard F Flynn wrote:

>
>
> Running Characteristics @ 70F ambient temps:
> - 170F-180F @ 60MPH-70MPH
> - 210F-220F @ 30MPH-40MPH
> - 250F+ after 15 - 20 minutes of stop/go traffic city (London UK) or
> just idling in the drive, where upon it gets finicky, stops running,
> stalls, and looses tan(!) fluid from the overflow tube only
> (the current specification of my Tiger is included at the bottom of this
> message)
>
> - having cooling system professionally flushed (the system was
> drained & refilled 2 weeks ago, so the tan color is a bit
> disconcerting, especially knowing it has been seldom used for
> the past 3 years)

Make sure it is a "power back flush", and there are souring agents and chemical scale
loosener which may still be legal in England .

>
> - install Gano filer on radiator

Brass, with flared ends, of course.

> - close gaps & holes around radiator

Need to make new horn lower flat bracket about 1 inch longer, or add an extension, to
go through fabricated aluminum flat plate. Double sided tape can hold it in place.
Grommet hole for horn wires. And any non-original pathways. Although this is just
frosting, not cake.

>
> Current Specification
> - 1965 Tiger MKI B9471206
> w/289ci engine, transplanted at an unknown date from an unknown origin (in
> Texas apparently):
>
> - thermostat : unknown

Probably 170 to 180, if gauge is correct.

>
> - radiator : unidentified high efficiency, unknown number of
> cores with 3/8" spacing & 9 ribons/inch

AHA!!!!.

Rick, you should be seeing about 14 of those little buggers per inch, and 3 to four
rows of closely spaced copper tubes. This is NOT a high efficiency radiator.

My previous posting listed this as the one I am using:

"7) Replaced original, or older design 4 row, with new high density, high
performance radiator. Same thickness as original 3 row, and
requires no mods of tanks. Modine H 69 H Cross flow. 18 1/2 W x 15 1/2
high. Four parallel rows of tubes, 36 tubes/row, each 3/8 inch deep by
0.080 wide externally. 14 fins/per inch fin density. This is about
$300, built by radiator shop, and well worth it."


Hope this provides additional clarifications.

Steve

--
Steve Laifman < Find out what is most >
B9472289 < important in your life >
< and don't let it get away!>

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/_/_/__/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/
_/_/_/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Two other things to check.

I know you said the timing was OK because you test drove
it. This wont do. Check the timing with a light. Nothing
will overheat a Ford quicker that timing too far advanced.

Check that your thermostat is opening. You do have a
thermostat I hope. Lack of one will cause overheating.

Check that you carb is not set too lean. I had a neighbor
here to day with a Ford pickup that was running hot. He
had the carb set far too lean. Once reset the overheating
went away.

One last thing. Check you hoses, especially the lower
hose. In 1967 my Tiger was overheating until I noticed
the lower hose was collapsing when the engine RPM
exceeded 1000. A new hose with a spring in it ficed that.

Good Luck. We all would like to hear how you solve
your problem.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: richards <(email redacted)>

Tan fluid indicates oil in the cooling system. I would be suspect of a
blown head gasket and/or cracked head. Run a pressure guage on the
cooling system and see if you are getting super-heating from the
cylinders. (pressures greater than 13-15 psi after warmup). If you
truly have the tan glunky slime in your cooling system than you have oil
getting into your cooling system.

Chris in Trinidad

Richard F Flynn wrote:
>
> Apologies to bring up what is no doubt a tiresome subject for some (a FAQ would
> be helpful here - saw the start made in January - would be great to see it all
> come
> together!), but I am trying to cure my recently acquired Tiger of its hot
> temperament.
> I have surfed the list archives heavily, had some helpful advice from Mssr. S.
> Laifman, and would now like to ask the list at large for any comment on my
> proposed
> course of treatment below.
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> rick & B9471206
>
> Running Characteristics @ 70F ambient temps:
> - 170F-180F @ 60MPH-70MPH
> - 210F-220F @ 30MPH-40MPH
> - 250F+ after 15 - 20 minutes of stop/go traffic city (London UK) or
> just idling in the drive, where upon it gets finicky, stops running,
> stalls, and looses tan(!) fluid from the overflow tube only
> (the current specification of my Tiger is included at the bottom of this
> message)
>
> Proposed course of treatment:
> 1) Figure out what I have (see "Current Specification" and what exactly
> is happening (see "Running Characteristics"
> 2) Based on that information and that gleaned from the list folks, I am
> planning on:
> - establish accuracy of temperature gauge (though clearly there
> is a problem)
> - check radiator cap & thermostat (which is currently a mystery)
> - having cooling system professionally flushed (the system was
> drained & refilled 2 weeks ago, so the tan color is a bit
> disconcerting, especially knowing it has been seldom used for
> the past 3 years)
> - install Gano filer on radiator
> - replace 6-blade water pump fan with one of the fans identified
> by the list, I suspect the Volvo will prove easier to locate
> - replace unshrouded auxiliary electric fan with shrouded high
> flow fan, probably the Scott Manufacturing fan discussed on
> the list from time to time
> - close gaps & holes around radiator
> 3) Other possible modifications (no necessarily related to my problem)
> - install electronic ignition (the Pertronics seems popular)
> - possibly replace fuel pump (currently an unknown quantity)
>
> My Current Questions:
> - Any comments, suggestions, things I overlooked or missed?
> - Does anyone know of a source for the Volvo fans (does Volvo still make
> them - parts yards are a bit scarce in central-London)?
> - Anyone know a good radiator place in/near central London?
> - It seems to me to be clearly a low speed problem, possibly compounded by
> a semi-clogged cooling system. Is this a fair assesment of the situation
> or am I missing the mark?
>
> Current Specification
> - 1965 Tiger MKI B9471206
> w/289ci engine, transplanted at an unknown date from an unknown origin (in
> Texas apparently):
> - complete rebuild 2500 miles/3 years ago (yes, spent a fair
> amount of time not being used)
> - tested on rolling road 2 weeks ago, so timing, ignition, etc.
> are fine
> - no build up of grime/crud on engine
> - no unusual objects restricting air flow through grill, etc.
>
> - air cleaner : standard
> - carburetor : Carter
> - manifold : Offenhauser 306 Dualport
> - cam : mild, but "hotter-than-stock"
> - heads/valves : standard
> - pistons/crank/etc : standard
> - ignition/distributor : standard
> - fuel pump : standard
>
> - water pump : new, standard
> - water pump fan : 6-blade flex fan (yellow blades pop
> riveted to white star base, all fiberglass)
> - fan belt : new
> - radiator cap : 15lb
> - thermostat : unknown
> - radiator : unidentified high efficiency, unknown number of
> cores with 3/8" spacing & 9 ribons/inch
> - radiator hoses : new
> - radiator shroud : standard & complete
> - auxiliary fan : unshrouded 4-blade fan in front of radiator
> - hood/bonnet : standard
>
> rick