Tigers List Archive

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Mail From: sosnaenergyconsulting <(email redacted)>

Hi all:
Sorry to bomb the list. I thought there was someone else who was
running a stock-type early eighties ford electronic distributor (just
the remote brain-box, not the later electronic widget that actually
attaches to the distributor body) on their tiger.
I had a couple of questions about this setup--would you contact me
off-list please?
Thanks in advance (no pun intended).

Best Regards

David Sosna

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>

David,

If you are referring to the one with the LARGE blue distributor top, and
the aluminum high energy box (3 models released by Ford, alone) that
were on my Mustang Mk II, and I put on Mustang (I), then I do have some
information on these,

I also know of applications on a Tiger, in combination with the 50,000
volt FlameThrower II and solid state points replacement versions (2) by
Pertronix.

Theo has some info on using above with Tach mods for the High Energy
version. No problems with just the points type coil version in the Tach
area, just the Pertronix II,

Steve

sosnaenergyconsulting wrote:

> Hi all:
> Sorry to bomb the list. I thought there was someone else who was
> running a stock-type early eighties ford electronic distributor (just
> the remote brain-box, not the later electronic widget that actually
> attaches to the distributor body) on their tiger. I had a couple of
> questions about this setup--would you contact me off-list please?
> Thanks in advance (no pun intended).
>
> Best Regards
>
> David Sosna
>

--
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Steve Laifman
Editor
TigersUnited.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Theo Smit <(email redacted)>

Hi all,
To expand on Steve's comments related to the tach:

I've seen stock tachs work with the Ford Duraspark module and
distributor, with the stock wiring (Thanks again for the test drive,
John). Just make sure that the 12V ignition wire that leads to the
Duraspark module is wound through the distributor transformer loop, and
that nothing else connects on the 'other' side of the tach. Tachs with
the replacement module should work fine if they're connected the same
way, and the module will also work with the voltage-triggered connection
to the coil (-) - if you do this and you have any problems with it let
me know.

The Pertronix module works with the tach module as well, a number of
people have done this and I've tested the Pertronix II / Flamethrower II
combination myself, in both current and voltage triggered operation,
with good results. Some other amplifier/coil combinations may give tach
issues if you connect them in voltage triggered mode, but if you must
have it this way (with, for example, the Mallory Unilite distributor)
then I can build a special module for you.

I don't know how exactly you'd use the Duraspark distributor with the
Pertronix module - that's kind of redundant, since they both will
eliminate the points that are the main reason for (maintenance-related)
ignition system problems.

I used a Duraspark distributor and wired the sensor outputs directly to
the MSD 6-AL. In my opinion, if you want a rock-solid ignition system
and don't mind using the larger distributor cap and wires then this is
the way to go. You get the improvment in driveability that the MSD gives
you, you get rev limiting for when things get busy, and they're easy to
get (or replace) on the off chance that it somehow craters on you. I
stuck mine on the driver's kickpanel so it's not in the engine
compartment, but I haven't heard of any dying due to the heat in the
engine compartment either.

Best regards,
Theo

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>

Theo Smit wrote:

> <snip>
>
> I don't know how exactly you'd use the Duraspark distributor with the
> Pertronix module - that's kind of redundant, since they both will
> eliminate the points that are the main reason for
> (maintenance-related) ignition system problems.
>
> <snip>
>
> Best regards,
> Theo

Theo is correct, assuming that BOTH tasks are considered to be done. In
fact, you have to REMOVE the Ford magnetic rotor replacement to install
the Pertronix, since only one "switching device" can operate the
ignition system.

I do not know if the Pertronix output will properly drive the
Duraspark. Seems to me to be a good idea to stay within a
manufacturer's system design.

The Pertronix, of either I or II issue are meant to replace flaky
mechanical point connections to switch whatever coil you use that
generates the spark energy the distributor sends along. The MAIN issue
concerns the ability of the distributor cap to handle the high voltage
it is asked to switch from plug to plug.

The Pertronix I, using the maximum specified "hot coil" as one ONLY of
the "points type" limits the voltage in the 15,000 volt range, rather
than the stock 10,000 volt range (example numbers). The main benefit
is the elimination of point wear, chatter, arcing, etc. by using an
electronic switcher.

The Pertronix II is a much sturdier switcher, electronically, although
both work the same mechanically. There is an additional variable dwell
time built into the Pertronix 2, as well as the current carrying
capacity to handle the very hot 50,000 volt FlameThrower II coil (NOT a
"points type"

The square box (Duraspark in Ford lingo) is much like other external
ignition systems, like the Mallory MSD 6 style capacitive discharge
system. These add energy to a large capacitor, which stores it, and
release it in a very large surge through external, or internal voltage
transformers (coils), creating a huge spark. It has issues with tachs
of an older vintage, as Theo points out, and has the cure for.

You do not use both the Pertronix and the Duraspark. In the Pertronix
case, it is simply a matter of assuring no arcing between plugs inside
the distributor cap.

Steve

--
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Steve Laifman
Editor
TigersUnited.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Theo Smit <(email redacted)>

Actually, the square box Duraspark module has much more in common with
the Pertronix than it does to an MSD or Jacobs multi-spark ignition. The
Duraspark is not a capacitive discharge system, it doesn't use a
high-voltage coil drive to decrease the coil saturation time, and it
only releases a single spark per trigger event. You can use the
Duraspark module with the stock tach wiring and internals - maybe not
all of the original tachs will take it, but the example I've seen worked
just fine.

One note: This link (below) suggests that the Duraspark is powered
through a length of resistance wire. This is the first I've heard of
that, but I haven't researched the Duraspark module very deeply either.
If you are looking to use the Duraspark module then you may want to
really figure out how the factory intended it to be wired.
therangerstation.com/tech_library/DurasparkII.html

Then again, this link here suggests that the coil only is powered
through the resistance wire and doesn't say anything about the module.
This is more intuitive - the module itself should be able to handle 12
volts, while the coil itself should be wired according to how it's
designed - if it needs a ballast resistor or resistance wire then you
must use one.
crazyformercurys.com/durasparkii.htm

Best regards,
Theo



Steve Laifman wrote:

>
>
> The square box (Duraspark in Ford lingo) is much like other external
> ignition systems, like the Mallory MSD 6 style capacitive discharge
> system. These add energy to a large capacitor, which stores it, and
> release it in a very large surge through external, or internal voltage
> transformers (coils), creating a huge spark. It has issues with tachs
> of an older vintage, as Theo points out, and has the cure for.

>
> Steve

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>

Thanks, Theo

As you can tell by the model years, my exposure to the Ford units is
many years old, and if there was a coil crammed in that V-8 Mustang II
it was hiding pretty good. I never imagined it released any more than
one spark per firing, but that box was as big as thee CD unit I used to
have (which did have a coil).

I'd be willing to wager that the "resistance wire" you mention is a
replacement for the ceramic resistor used in our cars to drop running
voltage to 9 volts after allowing a higher voltage coil initiation
during start mode (12 volts), when the ignition key is in the run
position, just like our stock resistor, wiring on the Tiger.

Being unsure, I did say "and release it in a very large surge through
external, or internal voltage transformers (coils), creating a huge spark".

It was not bad, compared to the standard design, and mine was many years
old before quitting on me. It was then I found so many "no label"
cheapy replacements, and at least 2 different Ford modules, with 3 or 4
wires. Not interchangeable.

The use of a magnetically sensitive semiconductor (Pertronix) is indeed
similar to the multi-pole center iron sender, as used in the Ford
distributor, on a functional basis.

My only interest in the Ford design is the "arc-free" large cap, which
snaps on to a coupling collar to the old distributor body, to limit
arcing inside the cap. Steve Sage may (or may not) have learned this
lesson. I am unsure as to whether this will solve all the issues, so I
procrastinate on the P II as the P I keeps running, and running,..... :-)

I wouldn't think the Duraspark had a tach issue, simply out of the time
period that the units were made, but it is good to know that someone has
their firm experienced grip on this.

I know I may offer some aged experience which is incomplete. Please
excuse any errors of omission. I'll have to eat those of commission.
(or "mis-spoke", as they say in politics now.

Thanks for the info.

Steve

Steve

Theo Smit wrote:

> Actually, the square box Duraspark module has much more in common with
> the Pertronix than it does to an MSD or Jacobs multi-spark ignition.
> The Duraspark is not a capacitive discharge system, it doesn't use a
> high-voltage coil drive to decrease the coil saturation time, and it
> only releases a single spark per trigger event. You can use the
> Duraspark module with the stock tach wiring and internals - maybe not
> all of the original tachs will take it, but the example I've seen
> worked just fine.
>
> One note: This link (below) suggests that the Duraspark is powered
> through a length of resistance wire. This is the first I've heard of
> that, but I haven't researched the Duraspark module very deeply
> either. If you are looking to use the Duraspark module then you may
> want to really figure out how the factory intended it to be wired.
> therangerstation.com/tech_library/DurasparkII.html
>
> Then again, this link here suggests that the coil only is powered
> through the resistance wire and doesn't say anything about the module.
> This is more intuitive - the module itself should be able to handle 12
> volts, while the coil itself should be wired according to how it's
> designed - if it needs a ballast resistor or resistance wire then you
> must use one.
> crazyformercurys.com/durasparkii.htm
>
> Best regards,
> Theo
>
>
>
> Steve Laifman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The square box (Duraspark in Ford lingo) is much like other external
>> ignition systems, like the Mallory MSD 6 style capacitive discharge
>> system. These add energy to a large capacitor, which stores it, and
>> release it in a very large surge through external, or internal
>> voltage transformers (coils), creating a huge spark. It has issues
>> with tachs of an older vintage, as Theo points out, and has the cure
>> for.
>
>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>

--
-----

Steve Laifman
Editor
TigersUnited.com