Tigers List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Dave Binkley <(email redacted)>

I picked up a copy of Drive!, a free news/mag on hotrods and classic
cars at a local dealership last week. There is an article in it on
keeping hotrods cool. The article was not an "ad" and was written by a
guy who builds hot rods for a living. One suggestion was to use:

"Evans' Non-Acqueous Propylene Glycol (NPG) protects an engine by
controlling the operating temperature of the hot spots in each cylinder.
Water-based systems generate a steam or vapor blanket which diminishes
the ability of water to extract and move heat to the radiator. Due to
its high (369-degree-F) boiling point and low surface tension, NPG
covers all areas in the coolant passages, removing heat and controlling
the metal temperature 100% of the time. This totally eliminates
detonation and overheating. In addition, it is non-toxic,
non-corrosive, low pressure (7 lbs), provides winter protection to -72
degrees F, and has an operating life of 300,000 miles."

Anyone have any experience with this product??

Other suggestions in the article included using a full fan shroud,
coolant recovery tank, oil cooler and coating your headers.

Dave
B9471930

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Armand & Lorie Ritchie)


>"Evans' Non-Acqueous Propylene Glycol (NPG) protects an engine by
>controlling the operating temperature of the hot spots in each cylinder.
>Water-based systems generate a steam or vapor blanket which diminishes
>the ability of water to extract and move heat to the radiator. Due to
>its high (369-degree-F) boiling point and low surface tension, NPG
>covers all areas in the coolant passages, removing heat and controlling
>the metal temperature 100% of the time. This totally eliminates
>detonation and overheating. In addition, it is non-toxic,
>non-corrosive, low pressure (7 lbs), provides winter protection to -72
>degrees F, and has an operating life of 300,000 miles."
>
>Anyone have any experience with this product??


Dave, I went to a interesting web site.(www.performancemarket.com) and they
have an alpabetical listing of performance suppliers. Neat web site,
anyway they listed Evans below and this is the co. thats makes NPG. I
tried their web site but it wasn't working. If you check this place out
let us know what happens. regards Armand Ritchie
Evans Cooling Systems
255 Rt. 41 N.
Sharon, CT 06069
860 - 364 - 5130
Fax 860 - 364 - 0888 www.evanscooling.com

(email redacted)
Armand & Lorie Ritchie

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Since I'm getting close to pulling the radiator for some work, I was
wondering about coolants.

I was planning on refilling the system with the same old Prestone, and
distilled water. A friend mentioned that GM now uses some sort of
orange coolant that is supposed to have longer life, and perhaps other
good properties, too. Does anyone know anything about the orange
stuff, and if it might be better/worse/no difference for Tigers?

Stu

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Armand & Lorie Ritchie)

>> Since I'm getting close to pulling the radiator for some work, I was
>> wondering about coolants.
>>
>> I was planning on refilling the system with the same old Prestone, and
>> distilled water. A friend mentioned that GM now uses some sort of
>> orange coolant that is supposed to have longer life, and perhaps other
>> good properties, too. Does anyone know anything about the orange
>> stuff, and if it might be better/worse/no difference for Tigers?


Stu, I heard about this Propylene Glycol anti-freeze coolant on the net
there is a web page with info (neosyntheticoil.com/coolant.htm)
It's supposed to last longer and be non-toxic. Let us know if you try it.
regards Armand

(email redacted)
Armand & Lorie Ritchie

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: James Barrett <(email redacted)>

At 12:22 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Since I'm getting close to pulling the radiator for some work, I was
> wondering about coolants.
>
> I was planning on refilling the system with the same old Prestone, and
> distilled water. A friend mentioned that GM now uses some sort of
> orange coolant that is supposed to have longer life, and perhaps other
> good properties, too. Does anyone know anything about the orange
> stuff, and if it might be better/worse/no difference for Tigers?
>
> Stu
We use fresh squeezed Indian River pink grapefruit juice here in
Florida, Orange juice is just way too common here.:-)
Sorry bout that, couldn't resist.

I have seen antifreeze both in green and orange colored. I believe
that both were based on ethylene glycol. The orange color changed to green
after running it a while.

There are two basic anti freeze solutions, ethylene glycol (C2H6O2) and
propylene glycol (C3H8O2). Streight propylene glycol does not boil until
about 350 degrees F. That may be why it is also used in brake fluid.

Several years ago (197x) there were only two places making ethylene glycol.
That was the year that the price of a gallon of antifreeze went from $.79
to a couple of bucks a gallon.
Propylene glycol will not kill your dog as fast as ethylene gylcol.
Both have a sweet taste that dogs like. (Clean up your spills for safty).

The difference in antifreeze is the additivies and the advertisements.


James Barrett Tiger II 351C and others

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

The orange stuff can be purchased as Texaco-Havoline Dexcool.
It is a silicate and phosphate-free ethelene glycol antifreeze/coolant.
Supposed to protect against aluminum corrosion.
I use it in my '95 Jeep, '84 Toyota, '90 Ford, '66 Tiger.
I mix it 25% , plus Water Wetter in the Tiger, with no overheating
discharge.(so far)

Bruce McGuire

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Hi Stu;
Prestone sells a new long life (5 year I believe) orange coolant that comes
in a silver container. It costs about 50% more but probably worth it.
Why aren't you comming to the united?
I got my Review today!
John Logan

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Doug & Rett Leithauser" <(email redacted)>



My Tiger is running the orange GM Dex-cool coolant, and it looks pretty and
runs the same tenp as it did with the green stuff. It is supposed to last
longer between flushes and be easier on water pump seals. So far I can't
tell any difference, but I like the color.

Doug Leithauser

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Brian E. Farkas)

All this talk about various types of coolant and their potential
effectiveness...

I would imagine that someone in the group might be able to shed some light
on the role of the coolant (in theoritical terms - we all know that it
should cool the engine!). Allan, Bob, Joe? What I'm getting at is that the
coolant properties of interest are its boiling point and its heat capacity
(that is, its ability to "carry" heat). Does the orange stuff have a better
heat capacity than others? What other properties do we need to consider?

So enough ramble, anyone care to pitch in?

Brian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Allan Connell" <(email redacted)>

Brian,

OK, I will probably get shot down here......if not that I will at least show
my age.

It's a marketing think, really.

To my limited knowledge, ethylene glycol was originally developed as an
"antifreeze" additive. Years ago, we used to call it just plane
"antifreeze," Especially when I was going to high school in good old
Wheaton, Ill., just outside of Chicago. And believe you me, we needed
antifreeze out there.

As most car owners are basically lazy, they did not remove, flush and
replace the "antifreeze" when the seasons changed....for instance: in
summer, going back to straight water. With this stroke of pure dumb luck,
some customers noted that they thought their cars ran cooler with this new
additive in non-winter months.

With this, the wizards added some anti-corrosive ingredients to the product
to further enhance the global acceptance of this marvelous product.

Bottom line, good old water (plain, by itself,) probably makes for as good
or better transfer of heat.

Let the flames begin. But I remember it folks as antifreeze. It's a
marketing thing....you know, expanding the market segments??

Regards,

Allan



-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted) [mailtoemail redacted)] On
Behalf Of Brian E. Farkas
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 8:11 PM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Coolants

All this talk about various types of coolant and their potential
effectiveness...

I would imagine that someone in the group might be able to shed some light
on the role of the coolant (in theoritical terms - we all know that it
should cool the engine!). Allan, Bob, Joe? What I'm getting at is that the
coolant properties of interest are its boiling point and its heat capacity
(that is, its ability to "carry" heat). Does the orange stuff have a better
heat capacity than others? What other properties do we need to consider?

So enough ramble, anyone care to pitch in?

Brian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Doug Mallory <(email redacted)>

Correct But........

I race a my Tiger and plain water will boil over at 145 degrees with just water
wetter and with 55% "antifreeze" you are good to about 165. This is with a 12#
cap. Water Wetter taste better coming in the window though...


Allan Connell wrote:

> Brian,
>
> OK, I will probably get shot down here......if not that I will at least show
> my age.
>
> It's a marketing think, really.
>
> To my limited knowledge, ethylene glycol was originally developed as an
> "antifreeze" additive. Years ago, we used to call it just plane
> "antifreeze," Especially when I was going to high school in good old
> Wheaton, Ill., just outside of Chicago. And believe you me, we needed
> antifreeze out there.
>
> As most car owners are basically lazy, they did not remove, flush and
> replace the "antifreeze" when the seasons changed....for instance: in
> summer, going back to straight water. With this stroke of pure dumb luck,
> some customers noted that they thought their cars ran cooler with this new
> additive in non-winter months.
>
> With this, the wizards added some anti-corrosive ingredients to the product
> to further enhance the global acceptance of this marvelous product.
>
> Bottom line, good old water (plain, by itself,) probably makes for as good
> or better transfer of heat.
>
> Let the flames begin. But I remember it folks as antifreeze. It's a
> marketing thing....you know, expanding the market segments??
>
> Regards,
>
> Allan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted) [mailtoemail redacted)] On
> Behalf Of Brian E. Farkas
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 8:11 PM
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: Coolants
>
> All this talk about various types of coolant and their potential
> effectiveness...
>
> I would imagine that someone in the group might be able to shed some light
> on the role of the coolant (in theoritical terms - we all know that it
> should cool the engine!). Allan, Bob, Joe? What I'm getting at is that the
> coolant properties of interest are its boiling point and its heat capacity
> (that is, its ability to "carry" heat). Does the orange stuff have a better
> heat capacity than others? What other properties do we need to consider?
>
> So enough ramble, anyone care to pitch in?
>
> Brian

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>



Allan Connell wrote:

> Brian,
>
> OK, I will probably get shot down here......if not that I will at least show
> my age.
>
> As most car owners are basically lazy, they did not remove, flush and
> replace the "antifreeze" when the seasons changed....for instance: in
> summer, going back to straight water. With this stroke of pure dumb luck,
> some customers noted that they thought their cars ran cooler with this new
> additive in non-winter months.
>
> With this, the wizards added some anti-corrosive ingredients to the product
> to further enhance the global acceptance of this marvelous product.
>
> Bottom line, good old water (plain, by itself,) probably makes for as good
> or better transfer of heat.

> Regards,
>
> Allan

Allan,

No Flames ^^^^^^, just let's shoot down another "Urban Lgend" (or is theis a
"Rural Legend"?). The cooling capacity of plain water (heat transfer rates,
etc)., exceed any mixture with anti-freeze. 100% antifreeze is a disaster.
The problem is, if the temperature is below 32 F ( 0 C), the water freezes, and
can crack the block. Adding "antifreeze", which was originally alcohol,
lowered the freezing point of the mixture so the motor wouldn't crack. Say's
so on the container, too.

The same physics that controls the lowering of the freezing point, also
increases the boiling point. Now, if you have a perfectly good cooling system
for your climate, you do not need "anti-freeze" when the temperature is above
water freezing. If, however, you run near water boiling (212F, 100 C) you
court disaster. In this case, the "anti-freeze" becomes an "anti-boil" and
raises the boiling point, allowing cooling to occur at high temperatures, even
though the mixture is less efficient at lower temperatures, it works well
enough.

Adding a pressure cap to the radiator system is another way of raising the
boiling point, so we do both. Pressure caps don't help much on freeezing.

As long as you are adding this stuff, the manufacturers have but other
ingredients in the antifreeze, besides the glycol. These are ant-corrosion and
lubrication additives. These just go along for the ride, and improve the
utility of the stuff, but not the boiling/freezing aspect. Unfortunately, this
stuff wears out, but the glycol does not. So you replace it every year to
assure the lubrication and anti-corrosion is still there, as well as too flush
the flaking particles and junk from the system.

So, that's the story. There are, of course, different types of glycols,
lubricants, and anti-corrosives. There are also "leak pluggers". Stay away
from that stuff.

You can always add water soluble additives and lubricants during the year, if
you feel the need for extra protection, or the confidence of being socially
acceptable amongst your freinds. Personally, I recommend bathing regularly.

Steve

--
Steve Laifman < One first kiss, >
B9472289 < one first love, and >
< one first win, is all >
< you get in this life. >


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>



Doug Mallory wrote:

> Correct But........
>
> I race a my Tiger and plain water will boil over at 145 degrees with just water
> wetter and with 55% "antifreeze" you are good to about 165. This is with a 12#
> cap. Water Wetter taste better coming in the window though...

Get your temperature gauge/sender/voltage regulator fixed. Water boils at 212F,
100C, not 145 anything, and even higher with a pressure cap.

Steve

> --

Steve Laifman < One first kiss, >
B9472289 < one first love, and >
< one first win, is all >
< you get in this life. >


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "John Crawley" <(email redacted)>

Just a note of interest:
I once had a friend that insisted that his new engine have distilled water
mixed with coolant so the engine builder had some distilled water delivered
for the purpose. After the engine had been run for a few miles it boiled
over. The re-builder discovered that the engine was full of goop. He asked
me to have our physics department analyze this goop because he was trying
to blame the machine shop for not washing the block out after it was
dunked. Physics came up with the analysis that it was mineral salts. The
water guy had delivered mineral water instead of distilled. They said the
engine heat and coolant caused the mineral salts to percolate out, which
caused the engine to over heat, which caused more salts, which caused more
heat, which . . .
Jc

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Laifman <(email redacted)>

John, et al,

I had a heck of a time at the super market even finding
distilled water. They kept wanting to sell me de-ionized
water. Mineral water story is really sad.

Needless to say, I am a fan of distilled water, Annual
antifreeeze changes, and brass Gant filters (with lips for
clamps). I saw the inside of my radiator I replaced where
that wasn't done. Really ugly.

Steve
--
Steve Laifman < One first kiss, >
B9472289 < one first love, and >
< one first win, is all >
< you get in this life. >


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Allan Connell" <(email redacted)>

Jc,

GREAT reply and example. And so it goes. As one of our greatest (and most
recent,) philosophers, Goerges Santayana once said: "Those who do not learn
from history are condemned to repeat it."

Regards,

Allan

-----Original Message-----
From: John Crawley [mailtoemail redacted)]
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 1:28 PM
To: Steve Laifman
Cc: Allan Connell; Brian E. Farkas; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Coolants

Just a note of interest:
I once had a friend that insisted that his new engine have distilled water
mixed with coolant so the engine builder had some distilled water delivered
for the purpose. After the engine had been run for a few miles it boiled
over. The re-builder discovered that the engine was full of goop. He asked
me to have our physics department analyze this goop because he was trying
to blame the machine shop for not washing the block out after it was
dunked. Physics came up with the analysis that it was mineral salts. The
water guy had delivered mineral water instead of distilled. They said the
engine heat and coolant caused the mineral salts to percolate out, which
caused the engine to over heat, which caused more salts, which caused more
heat, which . . .
Jc

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Allan Connell" <(email redacted)>

Here, Here Steve!!

50-50 Distilled water and antifreeze is highly reliable!

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Laifman [mailtoemail redacted)]
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 4:31 PM
To: John Crawley
Cc: Allan Connell; Brian E. Farkas; (email redacted)
Subject: Re: Coolants

John, et al,

I had a heck of a time at the super market even finding
distilled water. They kept wanting to sell me de-ionized
water. Mineral water story is really sad.

Needless to say, I am a fan of distilled water, Annual
antifreeeze changes, and brass Gant filters (with lips for
clamps). I saw the inside of my radiator I replaced where
that wasn't done. Really ugly.

Steve
--
Steve Laifman < One first kiss, >
B9472289 < one first love, and >
< one first win, is all >
< you get in this life. >


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_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/_/_/__/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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