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Mail From: "Pointers" <(email redacted)>

Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and
benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you guys to
come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer!

Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil for
changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high revs),
thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, sure
enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best I can
describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock either.
Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), quite audible.
Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got varied info.
Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10 miles), but
thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None whatsoever. After
about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the exact same
noise was present again.

Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and tackle the
issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets to share
the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil additive...that
sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done soon).

Engine = 302 with stock internals.

Gary Pointer
St. Albert, Alberta
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Mail From: "Smit, Theo" <(email redacted)>

A rocker stud might have come out of adjustment (i.e. loose) or pulled from
the head, and depending on some factors, the rocker is hitting the baffle in
the valve cover? Do you have the aluminum LAT valve covers or the chromed
steel ones?

Theo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted) [mailto:tigers-
> (email redacted)] On Behalf Of Pointers
> Sent: April 16, 2010 2:20 PM
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT
>
> Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and
> benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you
> guys to
> come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer!
>


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Mail From: Tom Parker <(email redacted)>

This'll be fun to listen to...

Gary,

How many miles on the engine? You could try a tune up... plugs, points, etc.
and check the timing. And an oil change with good oil.

I'll assume you know what a rod and main knock sound like, and what a wrist
pin knock sounds like (much higher pitched...)

You can probably eliminate for the moment piston slap; that normally happens
when the engine is cold.

Assuming that you do, what's left in the engine? Lifters, sticky valves.
valve springs. Maybe spark knock if the fuel is really old or the timing's
out.

First suggestion, drive the car without over-reving it. Maybe an easy fifty
MPH or so (around 2,000 rpm if you have close to stock tires on it... the
diameter's the thing... @ 23 - 24". See if it "ticks" at you when the
engine's good and warm. If it does, try and locate the cylinder with a
stethascope (or long screwdriver, but be safe!)

If it doesn't, recreate the noise at higher revs and try to isolate it.

If it's a lifter, any good oil additive (except STP... too darn thick!) may
help. STP gas treatment, Wynns, Bardahl (I'm showing my age; are they still
around?). Maybe some Marvel Mystery Oil added to the oil on the next change.

The point is first you have to isolate it. Frequently that's not an easy
thing to do.

Good hunting.

Tom

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Pointers <(email redacted)> wrote:

> Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and
> benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you guys to
> come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer!
>
> Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil for
> changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high revs),
> thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, sure
> enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best I can
> describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock either.
> Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), quite
> audible.
> Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got varied
> info.
> Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10 miles), but
> thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None whatsoever.
> After
> about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the exact
> same
> noise was present again.
>
> Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and tackle the
> issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets to
> share
> the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil
> additive...that
> sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done soon).
>
> Engine = 302 with stock internals.
>
> Gary Pointer
> St. Albert, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
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Mail From: michael king <(email redacted)>

> Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil for
> changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high revs),
> thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, sure
> enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best I can
> describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock either.
> Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), quite
> audible.
>
You say its sort of a ticking noise?.. and comes from mid block.. its hard
to know without hearing.. but if enigne is running as normal.. perhaps an
exhaust leak at the heads where the manifolds mount.. do you have headers?

--
Regards

Michael King
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Mail From: "Pointers" <(email redacted)>

Appreciate the quick responses.
Answers consolidated:

Theo: Chromed steel covers
Kirk: Yes, hydraulic lifters
Tom:
- # miles on the engine unknown.
- No, not experienced to tune in the diff between rod & main vs wrist pin
knocks.
- Believe I had isolated it to either #2 or #3 cylinders, via long screw
driver to ear.
- Re: additives. The guy who brokered the sale of the car 15 yrs ago, swore by
Rislone Engine Treatment and suggested I run it through. I bought a litre at
that time. Still sitting in the garage, as it has run great until this. Maybe
I'll run it through.
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Mail From: Robert Dobrowski <(email redacted)>

Lifter isn't pumping up



On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:20:12 -0500 "Pointers" <(email redacted)>
writes:
> Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and
> benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you
> guys to
> come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer!
>
> Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil
> for
> changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high
> revs),
> thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home,
> sure
> enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best
> I can
> describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock
> either.
> Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense),
> quite audible.
> Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got
> varied info.
> Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10
> miles), but
> thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None
> whatsoever. After
> about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the
> exact same
> noise was present again.
>
> Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and
> tackle the
> issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets
> to share
> the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil
> additive...that
> sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done
> soon).
>
> Engine = 302 with stock internals.
>
> Gary Pointer
> St. Albert, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
>
>

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Mail From: (email redacted)

I'd guess lifter, too.


In a message dated 4/16/2010 7:58:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
(email redacted) writes:

Lifter isn't pumping up



On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:20:12 -0500 "Pointers" <(email redacted)>
writes:
> Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and
> benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you
> guys to
> come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer!
>
> Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil
> for
> changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high
> revs),
> thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home,
> sure
> enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best
> I can
> describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock
> either.
> Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense),
> quite audible.
> Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got
> varied info.
> Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10
> miles), but
> thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None
> whatsoever. After
> about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the
> exact same
> noise was present again.
>
> Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and
> tackle the
> issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets
> to share
> the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil
> additive...that
> sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done
> soon).
>
> Engine = 302 with stock internals.
>
> Gary Pointer
> St. Albert, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)
>
>

____________________________________________________________
3.44% APR - Refinance Now
$200,000 Mortgage for $898/Month! No Hidden Fees. Refi & Save w/DPR!
thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc917c0d43c47469m07duc
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Mail From: "Thomas Witt" <(email redacted)>

I vote for a lifter. My Mazda 323, if it sits more than 48 hours gets a
lifter tick. It can last for hours..., and eventually goes away. As long as
I drive it within 24 hours or so (which I normally do) it never comes back.
It has done this for years.

Tom
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Mail From: (email redacted)

_gpointer@telusplanet.net_ (mailtoemail redacted)) writes:


thought I heard something ticking at the stop light.
All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets to share
the bill!

Hi Gary,
Here are two "simple fix" suggestions.

1. I would vote for a lifter problem, however, since it starts quiet ,then
gets noisy that would indicate low oil pressure to the lifter if it only
happens at idle. If it's a high mileage engine, maybe it could be fixed with
a heavier oil or higher idle speed.

2. I had a similar but opposite problem a few years ago. There was a noise
that sounded like a tick or knock coming from the right side of the engine
at start up but went away as it warmed up. After a lot of fretting and
consternation, I found that it was coming from the exhaust header connection
to the tail pipe. The problem went away by simply relocating and tightening
a clamp. I hope you will be that lucky.

John Logan
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Mail From: "Mark44124" <(email redacted)>

I remember pulling into the garage once and hearing a very audible ticking.
Thinking it was a lifter or loose rocker I pulled off the valve cover and
checked all the pushrods. Everything was tight. Started up the engine and
noticed the ticking was the same volume and timbre when cold. Turns out that
a plug wire had worked loose enough to form a gap between the plug end and
the connector. The sound was the arcing of the spark across the gap. A new
set of wires cured that easily. Sometimes it is the easy stuff.

If you do determine that it is a lifter and not a rocker and the Risoline
does not cure it, installing a high volume (NOT high pressure) oil pump can
usually cure that.

Bugz


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:52:54 -0500
From: "Pointers" <(email redacted)>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT
To: <(email redacted)>
Cc: Theo Smit <(email redacted)>


Appreciate the quick responses.
Answers consolidated:

Theo: Chromed steel covers
Kirk: Yes, hydraulic lifters
Tom:
- # miles on the engine unknown.
- No, not experienced to tune in the diff between rod & main vs wrist pin
knocks.
- Believe I had isolated it to either #2 or #3 cylinders, via long screw
driver to ear.
- Re: additives. The guy who brokered the sale of the car 15 yrs ago, swore
by
Rislone Engine Treatment and suggested I run it through. I bought a litre at
that time. Still sitting in the garage, as it has run great until this.
Maybe
I'll run it through.
_______________________________________________
(email redacted)
Donate: team.net/donate.html
Archive: team.net/archive
Forums: team.net/forums

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Mail From: "Pointers" <(email redacted)>

Update & good news!
Brought it out of storage. No engine noise. Not on startup, nor during the 10
mile drive home.
So seems something gets out of kilter at higher revs, then settles once the
engine is off (and not just for a short period).
Best web search matchs:
- Lifter pump-up: Occurs in the top 25% of the rev range, creating negative
valve clearance so the valve cannot close, which may interfere with the
piston.
- Sticky lifter: (Various explanations).
For lack of a better approach, oil additive is the Rx of the day.
My NAPA guy recommended "Kleen-Flo - Kleen Valves and Lifters".
I've added that to Castrol GTX, which claims "unique Anti-Sludge formula" and
"superior detergency action", ( plus was 30% off).
I'll avoid the run-ups to 4500 RPM and log some leisurely miles, then swap out
the oil again and see how it goes.
Good excuse for the first cruise of the year, on a day with far above average
temperature.

PS (I received 7 replies from listers in less than a day, and appreciate that
input. I'm good for now).

Gary.
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Mail From: "Smit, Theo" <(email redacted)>

Glad to hear it seems to be OK...

For anyone in the south-central Alberta area, I'm planning to go to the Spring
Thaw show tomorrow at Deerfoot Mall in Calgary... if you're in the area, swing
by! I'll try to be there from about 10 Am to maybe 1 PM or so.

Theo
________________________________________
From: (email redacted) [(email redacted)] On Behalf
Of Pointers [(email redacted)]
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:26 PM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT

Update & good news!
Brought it out of storage. No engine noise. Not on startup, nor during the 10
mile drive home.
So seems something gets out of kilter at higher revs, then settles once the
engine is off (and not just for a short period).
Best web search matchs:
- Lifter pump-up: Occurs in the top 25% of the rev range, creating negative
valve clearance so the valve cannot close, which may interfere with the
piston.
- Sticky lifter: (Various explanations).
For lack of a better approach, oil additive is the Rx of the day.
My NAPA guy recommended "Kleen-Flo - Kleen Valves and Lifters".
I've added that to Castrol GTX, which claims "unique Anti-Sludge formula" and
"superior detergency action", ( plus was 30% off).
I'll avoid the run-ups to 4500 RPM and log some leisurely miles, then swap
out
the oil again and see how it goes.
Good excuse for the first cruise of the year, on a day with far above average
temperature.

PS (I received 7 replies from listers in less than a day, and appreciate that
input. I'm good for now).

Gary.
_______________________________________________
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Archive: team.net/archive
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autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/(email redacted)


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Thank you for your cooperation.
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