Tigers List Archive
260 Buildup Part 1
Posted by mailbot
|
mailbot
Mail List Archive Bot
., Online, USA
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Jun 18, 2007 09:57 AM
Joined 15 years ago
68,271 Posts
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Ronak, TP \(Timothy\)" <(email redacted)>
Bugz,
I needed to shorten this one so here goes ...
Bugz,
I too have my 260 on the floor and plan on someday perhaps 'tricking it
out' but at this point I do not have it apart. While I have not built my
260 I did do some research as well and understand that the valve
diameter differential in size is only likely to affect the Intake Valve
as the centerline of the valves is standard for ALL small block Fords as
I understand. This is unless you use a TFS twisted wedge head or some
other exotic head. The net clearance increase requirement with a Hi Po
head is about 1 tenth of an inch overall for a 1.78 inch from a 1.67
inch valve. This means that at the bore edge you only have an increase
of 1 - 20th (1 tenth divided by 2) of an inch in the face diameter of
the Hi Po valve where it would potentially contact or interfere with the
bore edge. To me this seems like a doable swap so I am unsure why the
cautions of not doing it unless the cooling passages are a problem. Worn
Valve guides may be a factor but unlikely.
If you went to a 1.94 inch intake valve the diameter increase is 1.94 -
1.67 = .27 inches divided by 2 still gives roughly only .149 inches in
increased diameter at the Bore edge. This is NOT a huge amount. 2.02
valves may become an issue on the intake size as this valve gives and
increase at the bore interference of 2.02 - 1.67 = .35 inches or after
dividing by 2 gives .17 in interference and this may me a constraint
although by my math it still looks like it will work as I measured the
GT40P head.
The real solution could be to bolt a late model head ... like a GT40-P
with some domed pistons to keep compression at 10.0 - 10.5:1
compression. I have a set on the floor of my garage and the intake
measures 1.840" on the face and the exhaust measures 1.450" on it's face
with the distance from outside edge to outside edge at roughly 3.460".
The intake appears closest to the edge of the bore at .340" and the
exhaust at .400". This is with the 4.000" bore of a 302 block. The stock
bore on a 260 is 3.800 at standard bore and we have still .150" of
clearance to the GT40P valve edge to the approximated 260 bore edge
using my calipers and scoping it out. So assuming Gaskets for the larger
bore head can be used to ensure the fire ring is compressed by the head
(260 Gaskets may have too small a fire ring), and that the 260 cooling
passages are compatible to the late model heads cooling passages, dowels
are the same, ... etc... they should work out. The real issue is whether
they will perform and flow well given the valve proximity to the edge of
the bore. It may 'shroud' the valve and may need a Big Block Chevy trick
(and Large Valve Small block Chevy trick) where you flow notch the block
to improve airflow out of the intake and into the exhaust. This will
increase the final combustion chamber volume and with a small cubic inch
engine this will be hard to gain back with head milling. If you use the
289 head with the 54cc head and put slightly larger valves I am sure it
can be made to work unless I am overlooking something. My guess is that
if Doane Spencer ran a 260 then he probably did all of this. One other
point is that increasing Cubic Inches tend to lessen the lumpiness of a
specific cam and that means that a building a small inch motor it would
be wise to run one of the milder hydraulic rollers. Perhaps even a Stock
ford or an E303 rather than an all out unit.
An aftermarket set with 1.94 intakes could also be a choice.
Best Regards,
Tim Ronak
Services Consultant
Akzo Nobel Coatings
23961 Via El Rocio
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
Bus: 949-305-5393
Fax: 425-955-6268
Cell: 949-289-3357
email: (email redacted)
Personal email: (email redacted)
Mail From: "Ronak, TP \(Timothy\)" <(email redacted)>
Bugz,
I needed to shorten this one so here goes ...
Bugz,
I too have my 260 on the floor and plan on someday perhaps 'tricking it
out' but at this point I do not have it apart. While I have not built my
260 I did do some research as well and understand that the valve
diameter differential in size is only likely to affect the Intake Valve
as the centerline of the valves is standard for ALL small block Fords as
I understand. This is unless you use a TFS twisted wedge head or some
other exotic head. The net clearance increase requirement with a Hi Po
head is about 1 tenth of an inch overall for a 1.78 inch from a 1.67
inch valve. This means that at the bore edge you only have an increase
of 1 - 20th (1 tenth divided by 2) of an inch in the face diameter of
the Hi Po valve where it would potentially contact or interfere with the
bore edge. To me this seems like a doable swap so I am unsure why the
cautions of not doing it unless the cooling passages are a problem. Worn
Valve guides may be a factor but unlikely.
If you went to a 1.94 inch intake valve the diameter increase is 1.94 -
1.67 = .27 inches divided by 2 still gives roughly only .149 inches in
increased diameter at the Bore edge. This is NOT a huge amount. 2.02
valves may become an issue on the intake size as this valve gives and
increase at the bore interference of 2.02 - 1.67 = .35 inches or after
dividing by 2 gives .17 in interference and this may me a constraint
although by my math it still looks like it will work as I measured the
GT40P head.
The real solution could be to bolt a late model head ... like a GT40-P
with some domed pistons to keep compression at 10.0 - 10.5:1
compression. I have a set on the floor of my garage and the intake
measures 1.840" on the face and the exhaust measures 1.450" on it's face
with the distance from outside edge to outside edge at roughly 3.460".
The intake appears closest to the edge of the bore at .340" and the
exhaust at .400". This is with the 4.000" bore of a 302 block. The stock
bore on a 260 is 3.800 at standard bore and we have still .150" of
clearance to the GT40P valve edge to the approximated 260 bore edge
using my calipers and scoping it out. So assuming Gaskets for the larger
bore head can be used to ensure the fire ring is compressed by the head
(260 Gaskets may have too small a fire ring), and that the 260 cooling
passages are compatible to the late model heads cooling passages, dowels
are the same, ... etc... they should work out. The real issue is whether
they will perform and flow well given the valve proximity to the edge of
the bore. It may 'shroud' the valve and may need a Big Block Chevy trick
(and Large Valve Small block Chevy trick) where you flow notch the block
to improve airflow out of the intake and into the exhaust. This will
increase the final combustion chamber volume and with a small cubic inch
engine this will be hard to gain back with head milling. If you use the
289 head with the 54cc head and put slightly larger valves I am sure it
can be made to work unless I am overlooking something. My guess is that
if Doane Spencer ran a 260 then he probably did all of this. One other
point is that increasing Cubic Inches tend to lessen the lumpiness of a
specific cam and that means that a building a small inch motor it would
be wise to run one of the milder hydraulic rollers. Perhaps even a Stock
ford or an E303 rather than an all out unit.
An aftermarket set with 1.94 intakes could also be a choice.
Best Regards,
Tim Ronak
Services Consultant
Akzo Nobel Coatings
23961 Via El Rocio
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
Bus: 949-305-5393
Fax: 425-955-6268
Cell: 949-289-3357
email: (email redacted)
Personal email: (email redacted)
|
mailbot
Mail List Archive Bot
., Online, USA
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Jun 18, 2007 10:21 AM
Joined 15 years ago
68,271 Posts
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Smit, Theo" <(email redacted)>
Hi Tim,
I've heard that Doane built his "260" using a sleeved 289 block. That
approach gives you significantly thicker effective cylinder walls and
would allow notching of the bores at the top without as much worry about
hitting the cooling passages. He reportedly achieved 360 BHP, and if
that's accurate he must have used every trick in the book plus several
others. According to the various writeups I've read about his campaign
with the Tiger, Rootes didn't get all of the engine that he ran in the
Tiger when the contract expired, since he figured he shouldn't have to
teach anyone else how to build fast Ford engines.
Best regards,
Theo
Mail From: "Smit, Theo" <(email redacted)>
Hi Tim,
I've heard that Doane built his "260" using a sleeved 289 block. That
approach gives you significantly thicker effective cylinder walls and
would allow notching of the bores at the top without as much worry about
hitting the cooling passages. He reportedly achieved 360 BHP, and if
that's accurate he must have used every trick in the book plus several
others. According to the various writeups I've read about his campaign
with the Tiger, Rootes didn't get all of the engine that he ran in the
Tiger when the contract expired, since he figured he shouldn't have to
teach anyone else how to build fast Ford engines.
Best regards,
Theo
|
mailbot
Mail List Archive Bot
., Online, USA
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Jun 18, 2007 11:43 AM
Joined 15 years ago
68,271 Posts
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)
When we rebuilt the 260 in my Mk1A we went with 289 heads and Chevy 1.90" valves. The 260 heads have somewhere between 17 and 20 % less volume than the 289 heads. We bored my block to .030" over and decked the block/heads to mate. We had pistons made for proper valve to piston clearance (they started as a blank from one of the Pinto engines). The cam is the the COMP Cam 268H. We went with roller tipped rockers, threaded studs, teflon seals, appropriately sized push rods, F4B, 600cfm Holley and Pertronix conversion in the stock distributor. This engine wound up with 279 HP at the flywheel, is very driveable, sounds good, burns regular gas, gets fairly decent mileage.
Steve Halbrook
Mail From: (email redacted)
When we rebuilt the 260 in my Mk1A we went with 289 heads and Chevy 1.90" valves. The 260 heads have somewhere between 17 and 20 % less volume than the 289 heads. We bored my block to .030" over and decked the block/heads to mate. We had pistons made for proper valve to piston clearance (they started as a blank from one of the Pinto engines). The cam is the the COMP Cam 268H. We went with roller tipped rockers, threaded studs, teflon seals, appropriately sized push rods, F4B, 600cfm Holley and Pertronix conversion in the stock distributor. This engine wound up with 279 HP at the flywheel, is very driveable, sounds good, burns regular gas, gets fairly decent mileage.
Steve Halbrook
|
mailbot
Mail List Archive Bot
., Online, USA
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Jun 18, 2007 12:34 PM
Joined 15 years ago
68,271 Posts
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Greg Koss" <(email redacted)>
>From Doane's talk at SUNI in Colorado, he also said the heads were o-ringed
and was running between 13 and 14-1/2 to 1 compression.
>>> "Smit, Theo" <(email redacted)> 6/18/2007 11:21 AM >>>
Hi Tim,
I've heard that Doane built his "260" using a sleeved 289 block. That
approach gives you significantly thicker effective cylinder walls and
would allow notching of the bores at the top without as much worry about
hitting the cooling passages. He reportedly achieved 360 BHP, and if
that's accurate he must have used every trick in the book plus several
others. According to the various writeups I've read about his campaign
with the Tiger, Rootes didn't get all of the engine that he ran in the
Tiger when the contract expired, since he figured he shouldn't have to
teach anyone else how to build fast Ford engines.
Best regards,
Theo
Mail From: "Greg Koss" <(email redacted)>
>From Doane's talk at SUNI in Colorado, he also said the heads were o-ringed
and was running between 13 and 14-1/2 to 1 compression.
>>> "Smit, Theo" <(email redacted)> 6/18/2007 11:21 AM >>>
Hi Tim,
I've heard that Doane built his "260" using a sleeved 289 block. That
approach gives you significantly thicker effective cylinder walls and
would allow notching of the bores at the top without as much worry about
hitting the cooling passages. He reportedly achieved 360 BHP, and if
that's accurate he must have used every trick in the book plus several
others. According to the various writeups I've read about his campaign
with the Tiger, Rootes didn't get all of the engine that he ran in the
Tiger when the contract expired, since he figured he shouldn't have to
teach anyone else how to build fast Ford engines.
Best regards,
Theo
|
mailbot
Mail List Archive Bot
., Online, USA
|
Topic Creator (OP)
Jun 18, 2007 06:33 PM
Joined 15 years ago
68,271 Posts
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)
IIRC, it was a 260 block and the sleeves extended above the deck to effectively o-ring it..??
It definitely was 260 CID.
The high compression must have made the power...??
Gary
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Greg Koss" <(email redacted)>
> From Doane's talk at SUNI in Colorado, he also said the heads were o-ringed
> and was running between 13 and 14-1/2 to 1 compression.
>
> >>> "Smit, Theo" 6/18/2007 11:21 AM >>>
> Hi Tim,
> I've heard that Doane built his "260" using a sleeved 289 block. That
> approach gives you significantly thicker effective cylinder walls and
> would allow notching of the bores at the top without as much worry about
> hitting the cooling passages. He reportedly achieved 360 BHP, and if
> that's accurate he must have used every trick in the book plus several
> others. According to the various writeups I've read about his campaign
> with the Tiger, Rootes didn't get all of the engine that he ran in the
> Tiger when the contract expired, since he figured he shouldn't have to
> teach anyone else how to build fast Ford engines.
>
> Best regards,
> Theo
Mail From: (email redacted)
IIRC, it was a 260 block and the sleeves extended above the deck to effectively o-ring it..??
It definitely was 260 CID.
The high compression must have made the power...??
Gary
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Greg Koss" <(email redacted)>
> From Doane's talk at SUNI in Colorado, he also said the heads were o-ringed
> and was running between 13 and 14-1/2 to 1 compression.
>
> >>> "Smit, Theo" 6/18/2007 11:21 AM >>>
> Hi Tim,
> I've heard that Doane built his "260" using a sleeved 289 block. That
> approach gives you significantly thicker effective cylinder walls and
> would allow notching of the bores at the top without as much worry about
> hitting the cooling passages. He reportedly achieved 360 BHP, and if
> that's accurate he must have used every trick in the book plus several
> others. According to the various writeups I've read about his campaign
> with the Tiger, Rootes didn't get all of the engine that he ran in the
> Tiger when the contract expired, since he figured he shouldn't have to
> teach anyone else how to build fast Ford engines.
>
> Best regards,
> Theo
Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.
Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or click Contact Support at the bottom of the page.








